The Signal sat down with Counseling Services’ Stephanie Denu, licensed clinical psychologist, and Jennifer Shub, doctoral intern, to discuss self-deprecation and self-doubt in college students.
Q: How would you guys define self-deprecation?
Shub: I think I would define it as negative self-talk, but there is a social component to it. So negative self-talk, the way that we talk about it is usually more internalized, and self-deprecation is using negative self-talk as a way to give an impression on to someone else. So that might be like, ‘Oh, I’m such a loser for doing that.’ I guess self-deprecation can be internal as well, so I’ll go with negative self-talk.
Denu: Yeah, I agree. I think it’s a negative self-talk or overall just like a negative self-regard that can either be reflective of or really present as having lower self-esteem. Sometimes it is internal, but other times it may be communicated more externally. It’s almost like if I insult myself, then I can feel humble in front of other people because there can be this, I think, fear of not wanting to present as conceited, not wanting to rub other people the wrong way. Self-deprecation, when we use it, can really kind of, I think, give the sense of fitting in and leveling.
Q: Are there some positives to self-deprecation? Sometimes a lot of people do things such as self-deprecation and negative self-talk but in a very joking kind of way.
Shub: It goes back to maybe that leveling part and trying to be humble. So if you’re, like, in a group and you might feel like they’re putting you in a higher kind of position and you don’t want that or don’t want that dynamic, you might say something self-deprecating and funny to go and get a laugh out and try to shift the mood a little bit, but also put yourself down and try to make an even playing field. I think that self-deprecation doesn’t have to be completely negative. I do think that there are other ways to be funny and other ways to be humble, to be humble with yourself. And that’s one of the ways.
Denu: It’s just become so ingrained in our culture and it’s almost this way of, like, how should I say this if I say this about myself, that I’m almost kind of preempting other people saying this about me. So I’m not sure if that entirely answers your question, but I think it can sort of be used as, like, a defense mechanism in a sense of like, okay, if I make fun of myself in this way, if I say, like, oh, I’m such a disaster. Then I’m naming it first, and then maybe people might laugh about it. Or maybe I’ll get the validation from other people of someone saying, oh, you’re not a disaster. So I think it can make people become pretty dependent, perhaps on self-deprecation if they kind of want validation from it, so also as a form of seeking validation.
Q: What might be some ways that students can maybe try to work on those kinds of feelings of self-doubt?
Denu: I think the very first step is recognizing when they’re self-doubting and when self-deprecation is happening because it has been so commonplace and because it is so much of a part of the normal ways of communicating, it can really escape us in terms of when we’re doing it and what kind of impact it’s having on us. So I would say that’s the first step is noticing when you feel pulled to deflect a compliment or put yourself down and kind of taking a pause and being like, okay, maybe instead of saying it, I’ll just write down these thoughts and kind of notice how much I do put myself down. So I would say just noticing it is a very first step.
Shub: Yeah, I would agree with that, and then I think beyond that especially when it comes to the imposter syndrome and the self-doubt. Those are of course, noticing it is the first thing and then trying to understand it. So where is the self-doubt coming from? Where’s this imposter syndrome coming from? And if you’re problem-solving, if you’re problem-solving oriented. Problem-oriented. I don’t know. You might want to look at what kind of skills you do have. So you definitely want to balance out with some positive and then also think of ways that you can improve on those skills that you might not be so strong in things, that you might not be as skilled. When I think about the imposter syndrome and a lot of self-doubts, like, people thinking about, like, ‘Oh, I don’t know if this is what I want to do. I don’t know if I’m good at this.’ I find that something really valuable is going back and assessing your own values and trying to figure out, okay, why did I pick this? What has been my experience? And does my experience match what I was hoping for? Is it consistent with my values? Questions like that and really kind of like, getting down to why am I doing this? And if there isn’t really a deeper meaning answer, you might not want to be doing that thing.
Q: Do you encounter these issues with students you speak with?
Shub: We see students for a variety of different issues. It depends on what they want to come and what kind of things they feel need to be addressed. At least in my experience, some of it has been dealing with self-doubt and self-deprecation to the point where the self-deprecation becomes so ingrained in their identity. And that can be really difficult to cope with when you kind of feel bad about yourself all the time or you feel like you’re not good enough. So, yeah, we address that here in the center.
Q: What advice might you have for when somebody is in a situation where they find someone is engaging in a lot of negative self-talk about themselves to the point where they do feel concerned in that way?
Denu: I guess if it gets to the point where it’s concerning, then that might be it depends on, of course, the level of the relationship. If it’s strong enough, where the individual who’s noticing this kind of behavior and this kind of negative self-talk is willing to engage with it and willing to say, like, hey, I’m curious about this. You’ve been saying a lot of negative things about yourself. Are these things that you think about yourself? Are you doing it to be funny? Like, can we go a little deeper into that? And they can also, if they’re not comfortable, they might want to say something similar and be like, maybe you should talk to somebody that you’re close to about it. And if you don’t feel comfortable talking to somebody within your circle, then that’s an especially good time to go to a counselor. And here at UHCL, the counseling services are free, and prepaid.
Q: Let’s say there was someone who did decide to use Counseling Services, and they were discussing these kinds of feelings. What are some things that Counseling Services does recommend in dealing with those kinds of feelings and all?
Shub: Of course, it kind of can depend on the individual kind of context of people coming in. Are you talking about mostly self-doubt?
Q: Yeah, self-doubt and things like that.
Shub: I would say addressing the root of the concerns, kind of developing more of a mindfulness of have you kind of noticed self-deprecation and self-doubt coming up for you? When did those things start for you? Have those things been coming up for you more recently in the context of college? Do you feel like you’re able to have any support around those things? What is the impact that you really notice having when you are self-deprecating it? And I think as I’m talking about it, I think for some people they think that putting themselves down can be an increased motivation for them. Like, hey, if I discipline myself, if I, you know, kind of put myself down, that’ll motivate me. Like that will give me the kick in the gut that I need to keep going. And in reality, it can become so much more paralyzing. So I think that can be something that I’ll talk with folks about. When is talk like that motivating? But when is it really just damaging and talking through ways, alternatives to be able to improve that?
Denu: Yeah, I would agree. Looking at when those things started, [considering] where did those messages come from? Were they coming from other people maybe? Were they coming from yourself at a certain time? And I think, again, depending on the context and also depending on the clinician, there are different ways to address it. But I think what we’ll all do, I think what we all do is try to understand it better. So try to understand where it’s coming from, when does it happen, when is it helpful when it isn’t helpful? So definitely going into understanding it before going into trying to change it.
Q: It sounds like what you guys are really saying is when dealing with these kinds of situations, self-awareness and things like that are very key. Reaching that state of self-awareness is very key in first assessing the issue of why this is happening. Am I correct in saying that?
Shub: Yes, kind of getting to the bottom part of the iceberg because there’s the top part of an iceberg where maybe something yeah, and that might be just the self-deprecating statements, but what underlies that?
Q: In your professional careers and research, is there any research to kind of suggest like how much college students deal with self-doubt and things like that compared to other demographics?
Shub: I haven’t looked at anything formal, but something that I have noticed is a trend in more self-doubt and also like high expectations and maybe unrealistic expectations of what they should or can do and that leading to a lot of distress in the students. Yeah, but I haven’t looked at any research. That’s just kind of the trend that I’ve noticed.
Denu: Yeah, I agree. I can just kind of speak more anecdotally as well that I think it’s within the context of college. And I mean, it’s a transition in which I think a lot of people struggle with trusting themselves and making their own decisions, because up until that point in life, people have perhaps been more directed, or especially if they come from more authoritarian households. So I think just inherently within the context of that transition, there is more self-doubt. I think it’s normalized in that sense. It makes sense and what matters, especially for our work, is how we help people through that self-doubt.
Shub: I want to add to that that self-doubt is an important part of development and building your identity. It’s important to doubt yourself sometimes and again kind of look a little deeper as to OK, why do I think this or where is this coming from? As a form of getting to know yourself better and forming a stronger identity. So self-doubt isn’t always a bad thing. I think that it can be very beneficial.
Denu: Yeah, it can be very beneficial. But then of course there’s a certain limit. There are times when self-doubt can be really crippling and then that would probably be a time that you might want some help.
Q: So what are some ways to recognize that you’re doing too much self-doubt, too much self-deprecation and all because there’s clearly like a golden mean? And how might one recognize it as kind of going overboard?
Shub: Yeah, well, I think that it’s definitely subjective and it would be different for each person. But taking a look at how realistic it is and how accurate because a lot of and something that I wanted to talk about, we have a lot of cognitive distortions which are basically like things that we think are true but are not. And the way that we typically address, according at least with my training, is that we address cognitive distortions by looking at the evidence. So if you find or somebody finds that they’re engaging in a lot of negative self-talk and they’re paying attention to it, maybe take a look like okay, is this actually true? Or is this just something that is internal that I think about myself? Maybe even do some testing and ask other people, say like, hey, do you think I’m weird? I don’t know. Whatever they might be thinking. So I think doing some reality testing and seeing what is true and what is not true and then trying to think about what is helpful. So if there’s constantly bringing yourself down, bringing yourself down, bringing yourself down, that’s probably going to feel pretty bad.So I guess looking at the other side of it, like ‘Okay, what are some things that I’m good at? Am I really such a terrible person? Is this accurate?’
Denu: I would say self-doubt can become a problem too when someone feels hopeless. When it gets to that point. On the one hand, self-doubt can be helpful when it’s okay not to know where we’re going in life all the time. Right like that’s okay. And it’s okay not to know certain things. But if self-doubt gets to the point where someone feels hopeless and it’s leading into things like depression and anxiety, then that’s more so clear that it’s becoming more unhelpful.
Shub: And I think it really has to be like depending on the individuals how much they feel it’s affecting their life, if they are okay with it and the self-deprecation, it makes other people laugh, it makes them feel popular, it makes them feel liked. And they don’t really take it so much, take it so seriously and it doesn’t affect their self-image, then they are probably okay. But if they really internalize it and again, like start having some unrealistic perceptions about it and it’s getting them down, making them anxious, among some other things, then that’s when it could be problematic.
Q: Going back to what you said about cognitive distortions, could you define it and also talk about how big of a problem it might be among college students, the idea of cognitive distortions and things like that?
Shub: So I guess as a definition it would be things that we assume. I would say that may or may not be true. And it’s usually in the not true camp. So some cognitive distortions can be catastrophizing. So you take any situation and just going right to the absolute worst thing that can happen and fixating on that and building up anxiety and hopelessness. Or you can do mind reading. So it’s like ‘I think that I can tell what you’re thinking’ and ‘I bet you’re thinking that I’m really dumb. I bet you’re thinking that I’m or this person is thinking that I’m a bad person’ or whatever that could be. I’m trying to think of some other cognitive distortions. Minimizing maximizing.
Denu: Yeah, well, that goes along with self-deprecation too. The disqualifying, the positive and minimizing and downplaying one’s own achievements and focusing more on the negatives.
Shub: I think that cognitive distortions are pretty natural to humans and in some ways adaptive and that they help us predict things. The point where they become cognitive distortions or maladaptive, I would say. Its when We forget to consider the other things and when we also forget to see what is actually accurate.
Q: You kind of answered my question because my question was going to be what role would you say common distortions might play in self-doubt and similar thoughts?
Denu: I would also add to that though like all-or-nothing thinking is one that I see a lot in college students that can play into a lot of self-doubt.
Shub: Especially with the expectations. Many students think if they don’t finish college in four years, then they’re an absolute failure. That’s kind of an all-or-nothing thinking that I’ve noticed and kind of trying to take a step back and being like, okay, is that true? As a way to address that distortion? But yeah, I think minimizing and all-or-nothing thinking are probably the ones that are most relevant to self-doubt and self-deprecation.
Q: With finals coming up soon it’s likely people’s stress levels, feelings of self-doubt and expectations of themselves are going to be high. Do you notice, this time that students might be showing these feelings? What would you say counseling experiences around this time of the semester?
Shub: It would seem that that increases and it might have specifically to do with the evaluations that come at the end and whatever weight that might have. So it seems like that also happens in the beginning. I mean, not in the beginning, in the middle of the semester when there’s midterms basically right before any sort of big evaluation, it usually comes out a little more, I think.
Denu: I would also say too that procrastination can happen. And so sometimes when finals start to approach, people are confronted with I can’t procrastinate anymore, I need to confront maybe certain things academically that they’ve been avoiding and then that could lead to a whole lot of anxiety and then self-doubt. Can I do this? So, yeah, I would say it can. While we do see it consistently during the semester. I would say it does maybe peak a bit more around now, too.
Q: As finals near, what advice would you say you have for students whose self-doubt might be rising around this time?
Denu: I would say that to notice it and not to fall into avoidance tendencies, but to find ways where one can acknowledge the self-doubt and not let it become paralyzing and also being mindful of as the semester nears. Sometimes people can feel like it’s this big looming thing. And now all of my energy has to be focused on this, and it’s do or die right now and it’s all or nothing. But to keep in mind and balancing all of one’s values, like yes, education, end of the semester, it’s important to do well and being willing to devote energy to other things that you care about as well so that one’s identity doesn’t become fully tied into one thing that’s prompting self-doubt.
Shub: Look into how they might be at risk, I guess, for fulfilling their own prophecy, kind of focusing and fixating on all of the bad things that can happen that it ends up happening. And trying to take, I guess in a way, trying to take countermeasures and also have a little bit of faith in yourself. You’ve made it for a lot of students, something that I think I would say is you’ve made it this far, you’ve kept it up since now you can keep it up a little longer. Or this is a last hurrah. Or also reorienting towards the goals as a way of increasing motivation to attend to these things and go into the test and be prepared. Like, why do I want to be prepared for this test? Why do I want a good grade in this class? Because this is what I want to do. Because this is important to me. Because this is interesting to me for whatever reason it might be.
Denu: And you just reminded me of the difference, the important difference between noticing self-doubt but not believing self-doubt. There’s a difference between acknowledging and accepting. Like, okay, I’m doubting myself, but not believing that all of those self-deprecating thoughts are true.
Q: Do you guys have any tips or methods for how people can further develop that kind of self-awareness and mindfulness? What are some things that can help a person become more aware of what they’re doing?
Shub: So one thing that is not super helpful to this is like if somebody else does make a comment and it brings it to their awareness, that could be a useful experience for somebody who is experiencing a lot of self-deprecating, a lot of self-doubt and expressing it to others that they might not realize how much they actually believe it until somebody says, like, hey, you’re saying this a lot. What’s going on? Another thing I would say is mindfulness is something that is not easy. It is something that needs to be practiced. And we will be having some presentations, I guess on our eye rules about how to practice mindfulness and why it’s important. But mindfulness, in order to have it, it definitely requires being in a calm state. So knowing how giving yourself the space and allowing yourself to feel what you feel. Another huge part of mindfulness is observing your thoughts and not judging them. So not taking necessarily ownership for them and not like attaching them to your identity but also trying not to judge them as I’m like, it’s okay that I feel angry at my friend for ditching me. It’s okay that I feel glad that my mom sent me a package. So I think that’s a huge part of mindfulness and self-awareness that would be important in this because by taking yourself, by detaching yourself from these feelings, that’s kind of a way to get a better picture of it. So outside on our door we have a quote, the main door we have a quote by Bob Ross that says something along the lines of like you can’t see clearly when you’re too close. Sometimes you have to take a step back. And I think that that is especially true of self-deprecation and self-doubt is like let’s take a step back. Maybe we’re zooming in on something too much and we’re not able to see the full picture. Let’s take a look at the full picture and how it’s being affected and if it’s something that we need to address.
Q: Do you guys recommend mindfulness techniques like meditation and journaling in building one’s self-awareness as well?
Denu: Yeah, I do. I think journaling can, like Jenny was saying, really externalize the thoughts that we have so that instead of always living from our thoughts and feelings, we’re able to look at our thoughts and feelings and gain more of a distance from an observer perspective where we can take notice and take pause and really think about, okay, what is my mind doing? And is it helping me? Or is it hurting me?
Shub: I would just like to add, I guess that there are other ways of course, of being mindful and of trying to pay attention to what’s going on inside of you besides journaling and meditating because that doesn’t work for everybody.
Q: What are some things that work?
Shub: I’m thinking about this a little bit separated from mindfulness, but more thinking about restoring, I guess, doing something that you enjoy doing something that reenergizes you as opposed to depletes. It can be something that you might have to put a lot of effort into, like maybe exercising or sports, and maybe that is what’s helpful for you. And then for other people, it might be more helpful for them to meditate and really compensate on their thoughts. But it really depends on each person and what they enjoy doing, but to make sure that they engage in those activities because it’s really important to recover from those kinds of stress. And that’s how you end up recovering, is by engaging in those activities that you enjoy and that really restore you. Sometimes reading is also one of those crocheting painting.
Q: Do you guys have any final words just about dealing with self-deprecation and self-doubt?
Shub: Maybe the importance of practicing self-compassion kind of in contrary to self-deprecation? And also that it’s normal. Self-deprecation is normal. It is okay to a certain degree, like most things, it’s not so black and white and it’s really dependent on the person. And if they do have doubts that they’re welcome to come here and have a normal meeting about it. Or alternatively, they can talk to somebody that they feel close to and that they can open up to.
Denu: I would say to just be curious about next time they notice someone who is being self-deprecating or when they are being self-deprecating, just to take a pause and just to question it and again think about like, okay, this just happened. I just made the self-deprecating comment. Why did I do that? Was that to kind of fit in? Was that to be cool or relatable with other people? But what is really the impact of this? So I would say just knowing with it and be curious about it.
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Troylon Griffin II is a Literature grad student. His interests include writing, literature, martial arts, and philosophy. Griffin enjoys using his writing to explore such interests and is the go to person for all things Jurassic Park and Star Wars.
